Misunderstanding

[coffee_drinker]

Hello All,
I am as you can see a fairly new member in here. I posted my intro, as I stated my name is Bill and my wife is native.
I have not posted in a couple weeks because I did not realized that I am the husband of the woman some of you have mentioned.
It was during this time  I offered a place of stay for Sapa and her family. I had told my wife that I invited them to stay at our home, when asking where I met them, I did tell her it was on this site. So I would like to extend an apolgy to Sapa for not returning your call at that time.
I do not want to get into a dogfight here with anyone, but the onlything I would like to say on the subject of what has been said about her, which will be short and to the point.

Paulie, many years ago up at White Earth, a well respected man from your tribe held the first sundance there after over 100 yrs. My wife was up there every year supporting the sundance chief. We would go up a week in advance, staying at his home. She cooked for all that stayed there preparing for the dance. Nearby was a small little store, she would go in and buy things for all the kids that were there. She cooked and served all the meals by herself for the sundancers family members and the drum members and their families. Many people up there know her and respect her.
She went public many years ago trying to bring awareness to the poverty up at Pine Ridge, she would rent out halls to speak out about the living conditions of many, spending monies from our pockets to help elders, also getting pow wow organizers to support efforts to help clothe, feed many people. She never took a penny not even for gas. She saved and bought cars for some elders so they had transportation to get to doctor appoitments and run errands.
She has done a lot of volunteer work in the prison systems with the many brothers that are serving time.
She takes in kids and babies of all races, she is wrapped up in taking care of them she doesn't have time to do much of anything else.
All she has done since I have known her is extend herself out to helping others.

She has shown me her emails to the woman Scarlett, all that I have read had to do with exchanging their experiences as burn victims, I didn't see anything about traditions or ceremonies. So I don't know where that started from, as far as that she has sold out traditions to white folks. That would be a contridition of her whole life as I know it, along with many other people that know her.

Like I said I am not here to fight with anyone, but she is my wife and I know what she has or hasn't done. Out of respect to her and the members of this group I am going exit out. Hope this hasn't caused any ill feelings. Take Care

[educatedindian]

Do you mean Robin? Interesting, because both McKinney and Lekay are deliberately spreading the impression that Robin is giving advice on how to do ceremonies to McKinney. Perhaps Robin should ask the two of them to quit spreading lies about her.

Interesting also that Robin claims we were so terrible to her, but her husband stayed here for years and had no problems with us.

CD, you are as welcome as ever.

At least so far he has not left, he's still registered with us.

[sapa]

Hau Kola,
As I am new here also there is much that I do not understand but seems to pertain to old business.
I do not know this history. I know only that you and yours offered to help me and mine. Although the logistics didnt work out this time maybe it will in another time. Pillmaya, Sapa

PS: Our dance went welll. We were very unsheka but our bellies stayed full, our other needs got met, the weather was mild, and tunkashila remembered us all. It was hard but good.

[Moma_porcupine]

Coffee drinker
I don't think there are any misunderstandings on this end . ( except maybe Al thinking Coffee drinker has posted here for years when it has only been months . )

I actually understand quite a bit more about this situation than I see any point in explaining in my posts .   

I have no idea where Educatedindian has heard Kinney or Lekay might be claiming Robin is teaching ceremonies .

All I know is what was claimed here ;

http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=806.0

Although posts were deleted I saved copies of those I found most bizarre .

Weheli annouced Raven AKA Robin was going to "help" Scarlet Kinney's group by teaching them something more real . It was never said this was ceremonies . I disagreed with Robin's thinking there was any point in trying to teach this group anything , when they didn't even understand the most basic respect and were advertising and selling so called traditional teachings and ceremonies . I questioned Raven's motives . I pointed out ego - in other words getting attention - being looked up to as an Elder , is what motivates many sell outs , and I asked Raven to examine her motives . At that point , I just thought Raven was making an honest mistake as all of us do from time to time .

As far as I know , I am the only person who used the words " sell out " . Money doesn't have to be involved to be a sell out, and it doesn't have to be ceremonies that are being sold . Any actions which undermine the health of the culture , by trimming it down to fit with predominently non native  fantasies or desires , that is done for a personal gain - even if that gain is just the "high" of being looked up to , is , behavior , which I consider being a sell out . 

Raven's behavior of giving Lekay an interview , the sole purpose of which was to publicly try to discredit the information provided here , once again suggests Raven has no real commitment to the principals she seemed to enjoyed lecturing others about , the many months she was posting in NAFPS .

The only consistant behavior and intrest I have seen evidence of , is Raven moving into the spotlight where ever she is likely to get attention . Irregardless of how this affects the health of the culture she claims to care about .

Usually I would soften such pointed words by saying " Maybe I am not understanding something" , but in this case there is no reason to say this . No point in being so open minded my brains fall out .

I am very good at spoting when people don't really care about what they say they care about ,and when people are not who they say they are . Unless the information presented is incorrect , or I see someone is likely to be harmed by this , it usually seems best to just let it pass . Getting distracted by the stuff that doesn't really matter , seems like a waste of time and energy , when there is so much that does matter .

Was that your intention ? To waste our time and energy ?  To discredit the information provided here ? Or is it really just all about getting attention ? If you can't help , it would be nice if you quit playing games and got out of the way . 

Hope YOU understand .

I apologize to other readers if my tone here seems harsh . There is more going on here than I am explaining and I am utterly disgusted .  Good hearted people need to be careful who they open up to here ... As I have mentioned before , this forum is open , which is good for communication , but not everyone posting here is personally trustworthy . Unfortunantly that is apparently true even when people provide some good information . I guess like I said in the Lekay thread , we are all a mix of  good and bad and no one is all one way ....

Take care

[educatedindian]

My mistake to confuse CD with an older member whose been here longer. Still, my original point remains. While Robin was supposedly being treated so badly, her husband was on friendly terms with us on this board.

Lekay repeatedly refers to Robin as an elder. To Lekay that seems synonymous with doing ceremony, and he seems to have believed Robin to be an elder solely because the greatly exaggerated image McKinney gave of the relationship between the two of them.

Obviously it would have helped if Robin had simply said that she and McKinney never talked about anything except being in similar accidents. McKinney repeatedly implied that she would be learning Cherokee ways, including ceremony.

[coffee_drinker]

Once again I do apologize, my intention was not to be a dishonest person, that is why I thought it best if I was open and honest.
I do not know this was the group my wife was once involved with. As far as anything stated, I don't want to make any comments either way for it will not serve a purpose. Thanks